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Post by ForRealTho on Mar 30, 2022 7:05:36 GMT -5
When you're on the same side as Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney, Lindsay Graham, and Sean Hannity, you might want to step back and check if you've been getting gaslighted. I am going to assume Hillary, Mitt, Lindsay, and Hannity all agree that 1+1=2. Yes there are Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, just like there are plenty in Russia, more actually. Also plenty in the US: The whole war has been Russian aggression because they cannot handle the Ukraine moving closer to the west for a higher standard of living. It would be like the UK invading Canada because Canada wants closer economic ties to the US.
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Post by ForRealTho on Mar 30, 2022 7:07:50 GMT -5
Eastern Europe also isn't as far along with LGBT rights as the West, LGBT people are treated terribly in Russia. Someone was calling the Ukrainian's homophobic in some comment section and I am like dude do you know what part of the world you are in? lol
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Post by sj on Mar 30, 2022 9:04:03 GMT -5
When you're on the same side as Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney, Lindsay Graham, and Sean Hannity, you might want to step back and check if you've been getting gaslighted. I am going to assume Hillary, Mitt, Lindsay, and Hannity all agree that 1+1=2. Yes there are Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, just like there are plenty in Russia, more actually. Also plenty in the US: The whole war has been Russian aggression because they cannot handle the Ukraine moving closer to the west for a higher standard of living. It would be like the UK invading Canada because Canada wants closer economic ties to the US.Russia (under past leaders) and Putin have been power hungry land grabbers for the longest time. Why else do you think the size of their territory dwarfs all other nations? Putin is ex-KGB. He dreams of bringing back the glory days of the USSR (expanding Russia's territory & sphere of influence) and remain Russia's president (dictator) for his entire life. What's interesting about your UK/Canada scenario is that UK actually owns significantly more land & assets in the US, which they were able to accomplish because they had strong economic ties to the US ever since it was established and the UK was once (at that time) the richest & most powerful nation. The Revolutionary War ended their ability to govern their former colonies, but didn't end their asset ownership & economic influence in the US. Today, the UK is probably only rivaled by Japan and China in that regard.
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Post by sj on Mar 30, 2022 9:23:29 GMT -5
imo, the real problem/issue with confronting Putin/Russia is that they have the largest arsenal of ICBM's/nukes. You have to tread lightly dealing with them and even question if fighting over Ukraine is worth it (for us), because the consequences could be world-wide destruction.
I worry that Putin has Napoleon syndrome - if he feels backed into a corner, he'd persist even stronger and possibly resort to desperate measures, escalate & expand the war to other countries or launch nukes.
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Post by Babel-17 on Mar 30, 2022 15:37:11 GMT -5
When you're on the same side as Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney, Lindsay Graham, and Sean Hannity, you might want to step back and check if you've been getting gaslighted. I am going to assume Hillary, Mitt, Lindsay, and Hannity all agree that 1+1=2. Yes there are Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, just like there are plenty in Russia, more actually. Also plenty in the US: The whole war has been Russian aggression because they cannot handle the Ukraine moving closer to the west for a higher standard of living. It would be like the UK invading Canada because Canada wants closer economic ties to the US. Zelenskyy was popularly elected, meaning lots of ethnic Russians voted for him, on a platform of peace and co-existence. He tried to live up to that, but the Neo-Nazis refused to recognize his authority.
The more of them that die (thousands of the best Neo-Nazi troops are dead, most of the rest are surrounded), the closer the war comes to ending as progress keeps getting made in the peace talks, and the Neo-Nazis no longer have the juice to threaten Zelenskyy, and everyone else who are willing to recognize the rights of the ethnic Russians. The friggin' Nazis have even been trying to de-legitimize the Russian language, and their influence has gotten them some limited success.
A knowledgeable (albeit with a bias to Russia) commentator from Athens, has some updates on the peace talks. Sounds like real progress to me, though I suspect that the fluctuating state of the ground war is still going to factor in.
P.S. The Western powers are responsible for getting Ukraine to not make the concessions they've now agreed to in yesterday's peace talks (I think they'll have to agree to more, but it's a reasonable start. Russia too will have to settle for less than they ask for). Their financial backers want the money that can be made by pushing Russia out of the economic equations (watch who gets wealthier from the war and the sanctions). Well, now they owe Ukraine the cost of repairing the physical damage to it, and dealing with its death and suffering, and many millions of Ukrainians who became refugees.
Russia acted totally predictably, and the Biden administration was guided by the same "We make our own reality" insanity that led the Bush administration into invading Iraq, and subsequently destroying it. The same club of ass-clowns went on to destroy Libya, and partially destroy Syria.
"Poke that Bear!"
"My arm is shredded!"
"That Bear owes you for your medical bills!"
P.S. Some of America's Neo-Nazis, even the ones of Charlottesville infamy, got aid and training from their brothers in Ukraine.
Putin is a dictator, and a dangerous prick, but I don't think encouraging Ukraine to destroy itself at the behest of its Neo-Nazi minority, and to inflict major pain on the the economy of our nation and that of others by way of sanctions was the way to go. I swear, I think the idiots calling the shots in the Biden administration are unaware of the famines that Africa will have if Ukraine can't harvest and sell its food, and how American crops will suffer without the Russian fertilizer that our farmers are heavily dependent on. We promised Germany to supply them natural gas, but if we gave them everything we can it would be just a tenth of what Russia supplies.
I guess fracking might see a resurgence, but either way it's yet another good day to be in the oil bidness.
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Post by ForRealTho on Mar 30, 2022 15:49:07 GMT -5
The more of them that die (thousands of the best Neo-Nazi troops are dead, most of the rest are surrounded), the closer the war comes to ending as progress keeps getting made in the peace talks, and the Neo-Nazis no longer have the juice to threaten Zelenskyy, and everyone else who are willing to recognize the rights of the ethnic Russians. The friggin' Nazis have even been trying to de-legitimize the Russian language, and their influence has gotten them some limited success. The war in Ukraine is not about getting rid of Nazis. That is Putin's justification. There are more Nazi's in Russia then in Ukraine but Putin hasn't done shit about it. Putin has been very vocal that he doesn't think Ukraine is a real county but a part of Russia that never should have left. There are a ton of things explaining this. If there was not a single nazi in the Ukraine he would have still invaded
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Post by Babel-17 on Mar 30, 2022 16:30:07 GMT -5
The more of them that die (thousands of the best Neo-Nazi troops are dead, most of the rest are surrounded), the closer the war comes to ending as progress keeps getting made in the peace talks, and the Neo-Nazis no longer have the juice to threaten Zelenskyy, and everyone else who are willing to recognize the rights of the ethnic Russians. The friggin' Nazis have even been trying to de-legitimize the Russian language, and their influence has gotten them some limited success. The war in Ukraine is not about getting rid of Nazis. That is Putin's justification. There are more Nazi's in Russia then in Ukraine but Putin hasn't done shit about it. Putin has been very vocal that he doesn't think Ukraine is a real county but a part of Russia that never should have left. There are a ton of things explaining this. If there was not a single nazi in the Ukraine he would have still invaded Never said it was, that's a strawman argument. I've implied that the Neo-Nazis helped provoke the war, and their presence was an impediment to a peace treaty. They've been getting killed off, and look to be getting annihilated soon, so their influence has waned, and lo and behold the peace talks have progressed. I see a correlation. If there hadn't been Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, Zelenskyy wouldn't have been thwarted by them when he tied to defuse the situation in the East. And if there weren't Neo-Nazis, the situation in the East might not even have gotten to the boiling point.
Of course Putin would use anything he could to justify his actions, so what? And he probably did weigh in the benefit of getting rid of the Neo-Nazis when looking at the risk/cost/benefit ratios. He grew up in St. Petersburg (Leningrad), and he lost family to the Nazis.
British Prime Ministers think the world would be better off if they still called the shots, who cares? Same thing with Putin, though with him it's mostly rhetoric, and his dreams.
That needs to be looked at separately from his ambitions, and his goals. He even likes Germany, and I can't imagine him trying to send the Russian military's tanks into it (nor would the military let him), even putting aside NATO's obligation to use nukes to defend it.
What do Russian Neo-Nazis, or America's Neo-Nazis, have to do with the Russian invasion? Nothing, they have no political power. The Ukrainian Neo-Nazis however are a force that is feared. They burned alive a bunch of protestors they didn't care for, and because they got away with that everyone knows knew not to frack with them.
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Post by ForRealTho on Mar 31, 2022 10:29:52 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 15, 2022 7:41:57 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 15, 2022 12:11:50 GMT -5
The war in Ukraine is not about getting rid of Nazis. That is Putin's justification. There are more Nazi's in Russia then in Ukraine but Putin hasn't done shit about it. Putin has been very vocal that he doesn't think Ukraine is a real county but a part of Russia that never should have left. There are a ton of things explaining this. If there was not a single nazi in the Ukraine he would have still invaded Never said it was, that's a strawman argument. I've implied that the Neo-Nazis helped provoke the war, and their presence was an impediment to a peace treaty. They've been getting killed off, and look to be getting annihilated soon, so their influence has waned, and lo and behold the peace talks have progressed. I see a correlation. If there hadn't been Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, Zelenskyy wouldn't have been thwarted by them when he tied to defuse the situation in the East. And if there weren't Neo-Nazis, the situation in the East might not even have gotten to the boiling point.
Of course Putin would use anything he could to justify his actions, so what? And he probably did weigh in the benefit of getting rid of the Neo-Nazis when looking at the risk/cost/benefit ratios. He grew up in St. Petersburg (Leningrad), and he lost family to the Nazis.
British Prime Ministers think the world would be better off if they still called the shots, who cares? Same thing with Putin, though with him it's mostly rhetoric, and his dreams.
That needs to be looked at separately from his ambitions, and his goals. He even likes Germany, and I can't imagine him trying to send the Russian military's tanks into it (nor would the military let him), even putting aside NATO's obligation to use nukes to defend it.
What do Russian Neo-Nazis, or America's Neo-Nazis, have to do with the Russian invasion? Nothing, they have no political power. The Ukrainian Neo-Nazis however are a force that is feared. They burned alive a bunch of protestors they didn't care for, and because they got away with that everyone knows knew not to frack with them.
The situation sucks for the Ukrainians. But there are wars going on around the globe, as always. Why are we getting involved in Ukraine particularly and saber rattling with the world's biggest nuclear power? Our involvement seems to actually go against our own national security interests, when you consider the possible outcomes as the war continues to escalate and the U.S. increases weapons & money transfers to Ukraine (in the billions of $'s). Ironically, we're helping guard Ukraine's territorial integrity, whilst seemingly not giving a shit about our own. Evidently, for Biden, Afghanistan wasn't an issue of national security interest, despite being home to the Taliban who supported & trained the terrorists behind 9/11. So much so, that Biden pulled our troops out before American civilians and friendly Afghans could escape (from being murdered by the Taliban), as well as abandoning billions of $'s worth of U.S. military equipment & weapons (now in the possession of the Taliban). You know, our military would have to replace that equipment, which is yet another huge profit boost for the military-industrial complex at taxpayer expense. How convenient for them.. You do realize, the more they do this shit and trying to support the world (by transferring U.S. taxpayer wealth to foreign nations), the less the dreams of bringing universal healthcare to the U.S. have a chance of becoming reality. Could it be that U.S. involvement is heavily influenced by the peddlers of wartime profiteering?
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Post by sj on Apr 15, 2022 12:32:08 GMT -5
Remember when Obama, Biden, and the Democrat party mocked Romney for calling Russia our greatest geo-political foe. lol
imo, they're all wrong (hint: it's China), but that's besides the point.
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Post by sj on Apr 15, 2022 13:03:57 GMT -5
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Post by ForRealTho on Apr 15, 2022 16:48:38 GMT -5
The situation sucks for the Ukrainians. But there are wars going on around the globe, as always. Why are we getting involved in Ukraine particularly and saber rattling with the world's biggest nuclear power? Our involvement seems to actually go against our own national security interests, when you consider the possible outcomes as the war continues to escalate and the U.S. increases weapons & money transfers to Ukraine (in the billions of $'s). Ironically, we're helping guard Ukraine's territorial integrity, whilst seemingly not giving a shit about our own. Evidently, for Biden, Afghanistan wasn't an issue of national security interest, despite being home to the Taliban who supported & trained the terrorists behind 9/11. So much so, that Biden pulled our troops out before American civilians and friendly Afghans could escape (from being murdered by the Taliban), as well as abandoning billions of $'s worth of U.S. military equipment & weapons (now in the possession of the Taliban). You know, our military would have to replace that equipment, which is yet another huge profit boost for the military-industrial complex at taxpayer expense. How convenient for them.. You do realize, the more they do this shit and trying to support the world (by transferring U.S. taxpayer wealth to foreign nations), the less the dreams of bringing universal healthcare to the U.S. have a chance of becoming reality. Could it be that U.S. involvement is heavily influenced by the peddlers of wartime profiteering? War is a racket yes but there are also racial/cultural aspects. Putin is killing white Europeans which hits a little too close to home for a lot of people. People are used to seeing constant war in Africa and the Middle East but aren't used too seeing this in Europe. I have an Eastern European last name and a lot of Slavic ancestry, one of my siblings is enraged by the whole thing and she really wants to see Putin shot in the head on TV. We can argue if reactions like that are logical or not but that is how a lot of people feel. Also Afghanistan has been a money pit and a graveyard for American soldiers with no real benefit for the US. Good thing to rip the bandaid off and get it over with.
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Post by sj on Apr 15, 2022 20:20:15 GMT -5
The situation sucks for the Ukrainians. But there are wars going on around the globe, as always. Why are we getting involved in Ukraine particularly and saber rattling with the world's biggest nuclear power? Our involvement seems to actually go against our own national security interests, when you consider the possible outcomes as the war continues to escalate and the U.S. increases weapons & money transfers to Ukraine (in the billions of $'s). Ironically, we're helping guard Ukraine's territorial integrity, whilst seemingly not giving a shit about our own. Evidently, for Biden, Afghanistan wasn't an issue of national security interest, despite being home to the Taliban who supported & trained the terrorists behind 9/11. So much so, that Biden pulled our troops out before American civilians and friendly Afghans could escape (from being murdered by the Taliban), as well as abandoning billions of $'s worth of U.S. military equipment & weapons (now in the possession of the Taliban). You know, our military would have to replace that equipment, which is yet another huge profit boost for the military-industrial complex at taxpayer expense. How convenient for them.. You do realize, the more they do this shit and trying to support the world (by transferring U.S. taxpayer wealth to foreign nations), the less the dreams of bringing universal healthcare to the U.S. have a chance of becoming reality. Could it be that U.S. involvement is heavily influenced by the peddlers of wartime profiteering? War is a racket yes but there are also racial/cultural aspects. Putin is killing white Europeans which hits a little too close to home for a lot of people. People are used to seeing constant war in Africa and the Middle East but aren't used too seeing this in Europe. I have an Eastern European last name and a lot of Slavic ancestry, one of my siblings is enraged by the whole thing and she really wants to see Putin shot in the head on TV. We can argue if reactions like that are logical or not but that is how a lot of people feel. Also Afghanistan has been a money pit and a graveyard for American soldiers with no real benefit for the US. Good thing to rip the bandaid off and get it over with. The U.S. does more occupying than actual fighting in its more recent wars, probably post-Vietnam (i.e. we've adopted the winning of hearts & minds strategy vs. actually defeating the enemy by killing as many of them as possible until they surrender). One astonishing stat I heard was that Russia lost more troops in its first three days of fighting in Ukraine than U.S. troops lost after 20 years of fighting in Afghanistan. Then again, the U.S. military historically has much lower KIA's than the enemies it's fought.
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Post by sj on Apr 16, 2022 16:42:09 GMT -5
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Post by ForRealTho on Apr 16, 2022 19:23:25 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 18, 2022 8:12:24 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 18, 2022 14:36:05 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 18, 2022 17:47:56 GMT -5
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Post by ForRealTho on Apr 18, 2022 20:13:10 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 20, 2022 15:40:11 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 20, 2022 16:11:36 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 21, 2022 10:18:17 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 21, 2022 10:23:04 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 22, 2022 8:21:35 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 25, 2022 11:18:26 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 25, 2022 14:51:33 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 25, 2022 18:50:09 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 28, 2022 14:09:38 GMT -5
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Post by sj on Apr 29, 2022 13:18:26 GMT -5
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